Is your teen struggling in school, but you’re hitting roadblocks trying to get them the support they need? The IEP (Individualized Education Program) process can be overwhelming—especially for minority parents facing additional challenges. In this episode, I sit down with Maria Davis-Pierre, a licensed Mental Health counselor, autism advocate, and founder of Autism in Black.
Maria shares her personal journey navigating the special education system for her neurodivergent children and exposes the hidden biases that often prevent Black and minority children from getting the right diagnosis and accommodations. She also provides practical strategies for parents to advocate effectively, empower their teens, and navigate the IEP process with confidence.
WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE
5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS
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ABOUT THE SHOW
The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional Growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding.
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EPISODE CHAPTERS
00:00 Navigating the IEP Process: A Personal Journey
02:49 Cultural Responsivity in Autism Support
05:52 Advocacy: The Unique Challenges for Minority Parents
09:04 Understanding the Special Education Process
12:00 Identifying Signs of Learning Difficulties in Teens
14:58 Overcoming Stigma: Supporting Teens with IEPs
17:52 Empowering Teens to Advocate for Themselves
20:54 Leveraging Interests for Learning
23:52 Finding Support and Resources
26:53 The Importance of Grace in Parenting
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Cam (00:00)
As a mom who’s been through the school IEP process dozens of times at least, I can tell you it’s quite overwhelming. Whether it’s figuring out the process, understanding what support is available, or just trying to advocate for your teen or help them advocate for themselves, it’s a lot. That’s why I’m so excited for today’s episode. I’m joined by Maria Davis-Pierre, a licensed mental health counselor, autism advocate, and the founder of Autism in Black. Her work has been featured in Forbes, USA Today, PBS and more. Today she’s gonna do, give us the insight we need to navigate IEPs with confidence. Welcome Maria.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (00:39)
Thank you for having me. I’m so excited.
Dr. Cam (00:42)
Me too. So especially as someone that’s been through this process a lot, I know that is so challenging. But let’s first start with you. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got into just autism and black, especially.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (00:57)
Sure. So our story starts with our oldest child, Malia, who is now 12, almost 13, my goodness. And it started when she was about 10 months. I started to see the signs of characteristics of autism in her. And I knew with my experience as a licensed therapist, I was like, we need to get you know, in front of this and my husband who is a internal medicine physician, first he was like, you know, keep that over there with your patients. Don’t come over here and diagnose my kid. But we started the process, went to our pediatrician, went to early steps program, which you know, every state has just might not be called early steps. And then eventually went to the pediatric neurologist trying to get this diagnosis for her.
And it ended up with me actually boycotting in the pediatric neurologist office for a week because everybody was agreeing she was autistic, but nobody wanted to give her the official diagnosis because she was young. But we’re all agreeing, we know it, we can’t get certain services through insurance without this official diagnosis. And now you’re saying wait a year and a half when we know she’s still gonna be autistic. So boycotted in his office, he gave me the paperwork after a week of seeing him from the he came in to the time he left. And then, you know, started the service process. My colleagues start coming into our house and not understanding cultural responsivity, not understanding that you need to incorporate your client’s culture into the work that you do. So it was, they were making it seem like we were resistant when in fact, they just weren’t using interventions that were culturally responsive. And in talking to other individuals, we found that this was a norm, that we weren’t the only ones experiencing this. So that’s how we initially started Autism in Black. And now here we are, many years later with our podcast, our conference, our webinars and trainings. Now I have twins as well. have twins who are also neurodivergent and I got my own diagnosis.
Dr. Cam (02:49)
It’s a family affair that you have turned into helping everyone else, which I love so much that you take your own story and your own pain and frustration and you help other people with it. And I know, I mean, I just talked to so many people that are so frustrated, not only with the system, but just as you were saying, the diagnoses and knowing what to do and finding people that they relate to and understand.
I’m curious too, let’s just dig in a little bit. Like what do you see as some of the differences that we may not know? Because I know there’s a lot of microaggressions, there’s a lot of little things that people are just not aware of that people should be aware of.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (03:52)
One, when it comes to Black children in the school system, we are often not categorized as we should be, and we are deemed then a behavioral problem. So we are not even getting to the point to where we can get IUPs and 504s because it’s not being seen as this child has a disability. It’s more this child has behavior problems, they’re bad, they’re a bad seed type of thing biases that get in the way of thinking that black people can have disabilities, know, these children have disabilities that need supports in the school system. So that’s one of the major factors as we see is that getting to the point to where we have the, can get the supports is a struggle.
Dr. Cam (04:46)
Yeah, I think this is such a big thing and I see this across many different cultures, right, where we just, we look at the behavior and we’re very quick to make an assumption that there’s something behavioral really destructive about them and not that there’s a learning need, right, or not that there’s neurodivergence and the system’s not working for them. I mean, again, I’ve been through this with my daughter too and it’s hard as a parent because you’re like, is this just behavior that I should be dealing with or is this something different that they need support that they need? So when you’re in that line, even as a parent, you’re going, I’m not sure either. How do you know or how do you move forward with just that uncertainty?
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (05:16)
One, we have to advocate differently than the typical parent who isn’t a minority, have to advocate completely different. That means we have to go above and beyond. Like me sitting in that office for a week, you know, to get the paperwork, you know, us constantly staying on the schools, making sure that, you’re going through this process, reading the actual paperwork and looking for any of those kind of adjectives that describe our children in a manner that can then hurt them down the line, right? So we have to make sure that we are going above and beyond every step. For any parent in general dealing with special education process, you’re advocating in a different manner. You’re having to go in there. You add in intersectionality and it just makes that process much, harder. It makes the advocating much, much harder because oftentimes we’re not understanding if it’s racism or ableism that we’re dealing with because they’re so intertwined with us. So having to tease that back and know what point we’re advocating from is also something that, you know, is a difficult process.
Dr. Cam (06:49)
So you’re sitting there going, I’m not an expert, so I don’t even know if they have a diagnosis, let alone what they need for it. But I’m also going up a system that’s making it really hard for me to even figure that out. And even if I do have it, I’m still needing resistance. I mean, parents are just exhausted as it is, so they’re like, probably a many give up their children struggle and the whole time through school. And then again, the schools often, I mean, it just becomes a cycle, right? So now this child is seen as misbehaving and they’re treated as misbehaving. It’s just this whole huge thing, self-esteem plummets. So we don’t want this to happen. So what is the first step that we need to do when we’re at that stage of, I think something needs to be done?
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (07:28)
That’s what it is. I’m a big advocate for getting the medical diagnosis.
Dr. Cam (07:48)
Where do I go first?
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (07:57)
I think, you know, that can sometimes be an easier route because we can take that into the school and, you know, start that leverage from there. But I know that there so many costs associated and also the wait times and, you know, there’s so much that we’re going through when we’re thinking about that medical diagnosis. So if that is not a route that you were able to do prior to starting with the school, then go the route we’re supposed to with, hey, something’s wrong. Hey, let me speak to the sped-ed director. That’s what we call them here in Florida. Sometimes they’re case managers in other states. Speaking with that person, starting the process, getting everything in writing. You’re going to have to go over and over and over again sometimes. Sometimes you might have to go through the tiered system of how they go through the process to make sure your child needs the support. But whatever the way is for that school, that district, that county, start there and then continue it. Sometimes our children are categorized in that EBD category and not in the category that they should be and then you have to start your fight from that way. So you have to figure out first how do I first get them to understand that my child needs these supports and then see where they’re going to go with the category and then that will change your trajectory of how you’re going to advocate.
Dr. Cam (09:04)
We have to do a lot of pre-education before we even go in there because we need to know what to expect, what is our rights, what is available, and what the process is. So before we even start the process, we’ve got to research and understand the process. Now, what are some things that you recommend parents make sure they educate themselves on and be aware about, especially if they’re concerned about microaggressions.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (09:52)
Mm-hmm one is IDEA I mean that’s really kind of going to be your leverage for everything what I think is a disadvantage to everyone is the fact that Schools don’t really know IDEA they have the culture of what’s in the school that they go by but a lot of times It’s not what’s in the actual IDEA policies and the guidance and then when it comes to the black community, we’re not even given the information of how the process works or should I get my child supports? Is this going to hinder my child? So there’s so much that we don’t know that that pre-education doesn’t happen for us. It’s after the fact of my child, the school has said my child has been identified or I’m thinking your child can be identified. So it’s really kind of a disadvantage for our community because oftentimes we don’t do the pre-education first because we don’t know we should do the pre-education first, right? If you do have the opportunity, one, you are in a good place because now you know I can protect myself. Now I know that there is a set of laws that can guide how this process works. And in IDEA, parent is said more than any other team member. So that just shows how much of a pivotal point you are in the process. So making sure you know what is the rights for you, making sure you know what the rights is for your child, getting it in writing and constantly letting the school know, I know my rights. I know the rights for my child because that can make it easier for you.
Dr. Cam (11:31)
Now, when we’re working with teenagers, there’s a whole new many levels of complicated things that complicate the process. Because now we have the teens, when they’re little, it’s like, okay, this is what we need. This is what we need for our kid. And we’re speaking for our kid. Now that we have a teenager, the first thing is we see that our teen is struggling in school and we don’t know why. And a lot of times our assumption again is they’re not making an effort. They don’t care. They’re being defunct. We put a lot of those labels on them first. Parents do, teachers do, right? Rather than going, what’s going on? So let’s first look at what are some signs that maybe we can look for? And I don’t know if this is the right question for you, but what are some signs we can look for maybe that says, you know what, maybe we need to look if there’s some learning difficulty here that’s getting in their way.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (12:31)
No, I think that’s the perfect question, especially from a mental health standpoint, because one of the biggest signs is change in behavior. If your child is having what is considered a sudden change in behavior, they are struggling when they weren’t struggling before, right? Because middle school and up is a different ballgame for children. is, middle school is one of the hardest transitions for children because they’re going from elementary where they’re handheld through everything and then pushed into middle school and now you are independent. Okay, you do it type of thing, right? So that would be a big turning point for a lot of parents because then they see there’s something going on here, right? My child has to be taking the lead on making sure they’re getting their stuff done, right? They’re the ones who have to make sure that they’re transitioning from period to period just fine, right? You know, so we’ll start to see a lot of those signs and then you’re like, well, what’s going on here? And at first, like you said, it can be, why are you not getting it done? What’s really going on here? Why, you know, because teens, I’m on my phone, I’m on social media, I’m everything, right? So it’s oftentimes like you just don’t want to do it. But, you know, those sudden changes are also behavior as a form of communication. So also go beneath that iceberg of the tip of what you’re seeing and discover is there something more there because that behavior is going to be the first red flag for you.
Dr. Cam (14:00)
I can’t Stress that and underscore that enough with a lot of the teens I’m working for. They’re getting in trouble all the time. It’s blamed on the phone and they’re struggling just to focus or just to like understand. And so it doesn’t help when there’s more punishment and criticism and everything else. So it’s stopping and going, okay, they’re struggling. Let’s figure this out. Now let’s get to the next step, the stigma. I live in a very well-educated, high, you know, esteem place where, my gosh, everyone wants to be all straight AAP students and to say, my child actually needs extra support and an IEP. A lot of people have trouble with that and a lot of teens have trouble with that. So how do we overcome the stigma to get the help we need?
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (14:39)
One, very good question. And it’s so difficult because when your teen is, you know, at that age, everything can be kind of embarrassing for them. And they’re like, this is shame. I don’t want people to think that I’m different. I don’t want to be different, right? When we’re adults, we understand that that was a moment in time. But for teens, it’s like everything at that moment, right? I don’t want to be different. I don’t want this spotlight on me. I don’t want people to see that I need accommodations and modifications.
And that can be a difficult thing because as a parent you’re over here something needs to be done. I want to advocate. I want to do this. But when your teen is like, please mom don’t don’t right? It’s not anything for you to be concerned about. I’m going to get it together. And they are taking on all of that added stress and pressures because middle school and above is so much pressure for these kids that it is to I’m like you’re stressing these children out, right? So my thing is Therapy can also help in that aspect of understanding that, hey, there’s nothing wrong with me getting some support. There’s nothing wrong with me getting accommodations that then can, one, take stress off of me, two, help me be on equal playing field with my peers. So it’s one about changing that mindset for you and your child, and then going from there.
Dr. Cam (16:22)
There’s this belief that we’re either smart or not smart. And if we can’t do it, we’re not smart. But if you think about it, if you went to learn a new sport, of course, you’re going to get a coach to help you do better. Of course, you’re going to look at where your strengths are and where your weaknesses are. But in education, for some reason, we think if we can’t figure it out on our own, that just means we’re dumb or it’s embarrassing to need somebody. So I think it is getting through that.
Now we’ve got the parents are on board and I know parents struggle with it too, because they don’t sometimes want to admit, my child’s not this straight A getting everything student, my child needs help. But now we’re getting to the point where we see what is available and our teen is really, really resistant. Because of mostly because of what you just said.
How can parents address that resistance in a way that doesn’t create more arguments and frustration? Because I see that a lot too.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (17:23)
One is open communication with your child. I think finding out an equal balance of where they can get the accommodations, but if they can be where it’s not such a big spotlight, right? Where they can like, for instance, my daughter has a thing where she can have a certain signal that the teacher knows that she needs help. So the teacher doesn’t have to come over and be like, do you need help with this? Do we need to do this A, B, and C? But she can give a signal to where then they know she needs help, right? So we’re some of these things to where they’re getting the assistance, but it’s not such a big spotlight on that. And the team can feel secure in knowing that I know that when I need certain things that this is what I can do.
And nobody has to know my business because a lot of times that’s what it is because we know bullying happens. We know teasing happens, right? And we don’t want to feel like that outsider. So having that communication with your team, asking them what they need, because sometimes parents go into school and they’re advocating, not knowing that that is not something that their team is going to work with, that that accommodation is not going to be something that they feel OK with. It doesn’t work for them. So having that communication and involving them makes it a lot easier because now they feel like they’ve had input in their life, which they should.
Dr. Cam (18:46)
That is so key and so important. Your teen has to be involved. End of story. If we’re doing this behind their back, just what you said, we don’t necessarily know what they need and they feel like even less in control. I’ve always told people, my daughter’s had an IEP before she could barely talk because she had speech difficulties. We’ve been in the system from the get-go. But she has been in our meetings advocating herself since she could talk. Like she was always there and now she does all of it. And I just go, do you want me there for support? I’m not going to say anything because you’ve got this. And she’s so great at advocating for herself now. And it feels so empowered about it, but she’s done it. So it’s about her, not about what I need for her. It’s about what she needs for her. And I think the other thing is normalizing it. That was another big thing that’s always been a part of our conversations. It’s not that she’s dumb. It’s not that she’s struggling. It’s that she needs different ways to learn that the school doesn’t necessarily provide to everyone. So now she has these. So it’s become empowering to her to be able to ask for these and have it, which is amazing.But I don’t see that a lot. see a lot of kids feel like this is a sign of weakness.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (20:14)
Because in this, like you said, because it’s not normalized, or it’s normalized in our homes because it is normal for us, but in other homes to where the child doesn’t have a disability, it’s not normalized, right? So they don’t understand that people are different, and then that makes it more difficult because, yes, in my house, this is normalized, but when I leave my house and others are talking about me, I’m seeing that, okay.
This is not, they don’t understand that it’s not normal, right? They don’t understand that what their experience is, is not the norm, right? So they’re thinking to me that I’m the different one, right? No.
That’s where it comes to everybody really getting that education. There’s when it comes to really understanding that schools should have accommodations weaved in to the system so that students, especially when it comes to students who don’t get identified, and it can make it easier. It makes the whole school system easier for everybody, for the teachers, for the admins, for the students, because there are so many students who are not identified, especially as we’re getting older because they’re looking at more behavioral issues. So the conversations have to just go more than outside of homes where we’re dealing with it. They need to be in homes where they’re not dealing with it, where that is not their norm, you know. So it comes with that as well. I love that your daughter advocates for herself to their mom’s a therapist right so they advocate in completely different ways because their parents have taught them completely different the way that my children advocate people know that their mom is a therapist that is just no like
Dr. Cam (21:46)
So is mine.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (22:02)
Your mom must be in this work. Yes, because of how they advocate, because of how I raise them. That’s not the norm. The way that my children and your child is not the norm, but because their parents are in the field, it’s the norm for them. So that’s where the conversations have to go beyond these households.
Dr. Cam (22:07)
I want this conversation because I want everyone else to know, listen, this is extraordinarily empowering when your child has control and ability to advocate for themselves. And we’ve normalized the fact that there are going to be places that you’re going to struggle. Everyone does. And I think this, we struggle in all kinds of different things in the world for some reason, because everyone has to go to school and everyone is compared to everyone at the exact same time based on age, that really magnifies differences and they’re stuck in this place. So the comparisons are really huge when in everything else, the differences are just as vast, but we’re not in a microcosm, right? We’re not in this little Petri dish looking at every single person. So the people that particularly struggle in that one area,
Let’s be real, it’s one area of type of learning. Get stigmatized, right? And looked at, right? So the other thing, and I want to ask you how you do this too, is we focus on this is one way that you learn and that’s not the best way that you learn. So we’re going to find all the other ways that you are super strong in and all your other strengths that may not show up in school, but we’re going to really magnify those in the rest of your life. And that builds her confidence.
Tell me about how you do that with your kids, because I know you do.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (23:52)
We do that by their interest really. So for example, my preteen almost teenager loves culinary. She wants to be a chef. She’s in the culinary program at her middle school. That’s she chose that middle school based on them having that culinary program. That’s her thing. And we utilize her love for culinary to help with other things because when you’re doing a recipe, there’s math, there’s reading, there’s all of that. So when we’re able to weave it into her interest, she can then apply it in other areas, right? Of course, she’s dealing with fractions. She’s dealing with having to be able to comprehend the recipe to know this comes first, this comes second, this comes third. So when you take it with their interest and weave it into there, it makes it fun for them, because they’re like, I’m doing my interest, but they’re also learning and you’re getting both of the good things happening at once. So weaving it in with their interest, I find has been very easy for me to get the learning in, but also making sure that they’re not bored, they’re not tired, they’re not feeling like I can’t get this type of thing because they’re invested in their interest.
Dr. Cam (25:06)
It’s amazing that they will do things that they struggle with in school without any problem at all. Because my daughter is all theater, right? So she has to do reading comprehension in school and struggles with it, but she will go read an article and give me every little detail and memorize everything about it when it’s about theater. She knows like the price, the cost. I don’t even understand it all. Like she just knows everything about it. And I’m like, how’d you know that? Well, I read that whole thing, but you can’t read this paragraph and say, no, that’s boring.
It has nothing to do with comprehension, it has to do with that’s boring.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (25:40)
Preferred, fast-spirited. And I’ll tell you, I am a 41-year-old who is autistic and has ADHD. I have non-preferred and preferred things, and I will avoid something that I don’t like to do, but something that I am heavily invested in. I will know every single, it will be done on time, get it in, anything else. The executive functioning skills start, and I have to learn, okay, I need to implement my coping skills, have to implement my accommodations, right? And for children who don’t have fully formed brains, who don’t have the emotional regulation of adults, we can’t hold them to higher standards of, you gotta get this done. They don’t want to, because it’s not fun.
Dr. Cam (26:23)
Thank you for saying that, the higher standards, because I do, again, see this a lot where we lose our crap, but get upset when our kids do. And our kids have less ability to regulate their emotions than we do. We get upset when our kids don’t get everything done right when we want them to get it done. But I mean, I’ve been tripping over my Christmas tree in the foyer for months now, because I don’t feel like putting it away. If that had been my daughter’s, I would have been really annoyed with her forever and ever because she hasn’t put it away yet. So I think we do have to look at what standards are we setting for our kids and what priorities, right? Like our priorities are different from theirs. So when they’re struggling at school and when they’re struggling at different things, we need to take all this into account, right? They’re doing their best. They really, really are.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (27:16)
They really are. Exactly. And weave those things into their IEPs. My son, he likes to stand to do his work. It’s in his IEP that he can stand and do. If he’s not bothering anybody, don’t bother him, right? He has a spin disc. The things that he needs, weave it in there because then it makes it easier for them to be able to learn.
If they’re constantly not regulated, not feeling comfortable, then they’re not going to do it. But if you’re weaving in those things that are going to help them, that they enjoy, it makes it easier for everybody involved.
Dr. Cam (28:02)
Yeah, and that’s just in real life, you can do that. So it’s just advocating so they can do that in school where they’re learning how to do it. So Maria, tell us how can people find you, especially if they need to learn from you because you’re going to help them navigate this, which is very complicated.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (28:06)
Yes, it is. Listen, it’s complicated thing, but we try to make it enjoyable over here at Autism in Black. So you could go to our website, autisminblack.org, and it has everything. has how you can work with me, how you can get access to our conferences, podcasts, all of our social media handles. It has everything there. You just go to autisminblack.org and you can connect with me.
Dr. Cam (28:48)
I love it. Thank you so much. And what is one key takeaway that out of all this, which was a lot, what do you really want parents to remember from this?
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (28:55)
One is grace. Give yourself grace and give your kids grace. I think oftentimes society places these expectations that we feel we have to live by and it makes it so hard for us and our kids. And understanding that grace will help. I think it makes it less stressful for you and them.
Dr. Cam (29:03)
It’s so important. It really is. We have a lot of shoulds that we live by and the shoulds need to be trashed because they they’re pile on. So yeah, I love that. So give ourselves grace. Thank you, Maria, for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (29:25)
This was fun. Thank you for having me.
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