Beth’s daughter, Ellen, asked why our books aren’t on the bestseller list, and honestly? Great question, Ellen. That one question opens up the whole can of worms today: how popular consensus gets manufactured — from the mysterious black box of the New York Times bestseller list to music catalogs being protected like the financial assets they literally are, to the Vulture piece that confirmed what I’ve suspected for a while now, which is that nothing on your social media feed is actually organic. We also wade into the Michael Jackson biopic, which I have real feelings about, and we end in a much better place, talking about songs that have nothing to do with romantic Love. I am warning you now that I cannot discuss Brandi Carlile without crying, so just be ready for that. — Sarah

Topics Discussed

• Cultural Consensus and Its Impact

• Art, Trust, and Marketing in the Digital Age

• Outside of Politics: Nonlove Songs

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Sarah & Beth Podcasters

Pantsuit Politics is a podcast for real conversations that help us understand politics, democracy, and the news - while still treating each other like thoughtful human beings. We take a different approach to the news; our political analysis blends hard facts with important social and cultural undercurrents so you don’t miss the big picture. Over years of discussing everything from abortion to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, we established basic rules of engagement, which we describe in our books, Now What? How to Move Forward When We’re Divided (About Basically Everything) (2022) and I Think You’re Wrong (But I’m Listening): A Guide to Grace-Filled Political Conversation (2019). Listeners describe us as “America’s political therapists” and “our trusted, smarter friends who can help us make sense of the world.”